School Bells – Current Affairs – Grade 8 – Week 31
This week is the 31st time I have met with these 8t graders. It has been an exciting adventure. Given the constraints of the school budget it is not clear if this class will be offered the 8th graders net year. Even though my time is volunteered, if the budget is severely cut there may adjustments in the schedule. For now, however, we will continue to meet and appreciate our time together. I am excited to hear that these students have to say about the relationship between science and morals – between science and how we determine what is right and wrong.
The students are now arriving.
Me: Good morning class. Yes, we have cookies!
Class: Yea! Good morning Mr. Jim
Me: Tom and Susie will you pass out the cookies please.
(They do so.)
Me: I am eager to hear what you and your families think about the question of whether science can answer the question of what is right and wrong. I had suggested you might listen to a Ted Talk by Samuel Harris, an author, philosopher and neuroscientist. He firmly believes that “the separation between science and human values is an illusion.” How many of you and your families listened to his talk?
Everyone raises their hands.
Me: Who wants to begin the conversation? What is the basis of human values for Mr. Harris?
Will: He says that “values are a certain kind of fact. They are facts about the well-being of conscious creatures.”
Susie: He also says that “If we are more concerned about our fellow primates than we are about insects, as indeed we are, it’s because we think that they’re exposed to a greater range of potential happiness and suffering.”
Me: You are doing good with writing down what you want to remember.
Abdul: I thought we said that the brain of the fruit fly in many ways duplicates that of humans. Can fruit flies suffer?
Ann: Is someone has a lot of money do they suffer less than someone who is poor and cannot afford to take care of their family. We know someone whose mother is very sick but they cannot afford to pay for a special kind of treatment. Some folks are helping to raise money for them.
Susie: Does it make a difference that Mr. Harris talks about being exposed to a greater range of potential happiness and suffering?
Me: Great question. Do we know what brings about happiness?
Amena: The terrorist is very happy for a time but he or she makes others suffer.
Me: Are we now going back to the teaching of philosophers such as Jeremy Bentham who talked about the greatest good for the greatest number?
Amena: Was he the one who was also concerned about animal rights?
Me: Yes, he was. I cannot recall whether he made a distinction between primates and insects. What other questions come to mind when thinking about whether science can answer the question of how we determine what is right and wrong.
Susie: When we were listening to him talk about women who wear the burqa I got very confused. It is almost as if he is saying that women in certain society are not really free to choose whether to wear a burqa although he says that women should be free to make that choice.
Me: Susie, are you saying that even if women say that they feel free to make a choice, according to Mr. Harris they may not be? He also calls it a burlap bag which seems to confuse the issue.
Susie: I think so Mr. Jim. It gets very confusing.
Paul: We talked about whether science can identify natural law and if they can be people such as Hobbs and Locke right to suggest that morality is about duty to abide by natural law.
Ann: Have we already interfered with natural law? Is climate change related to that?
Me: Great questions all of you. Obviously, humans have been attempting to determine the basis of moral decision for a very long time.
John: We read some about Mr. Harris and it seems as if he is determined to find a way to talk about right and wrong without relying on religion. Didn’t he write some books about that.
Me: Very good John. Many people have used religious beliefs to try to teach right and wrong. For some, the fear of God’s displeasure is how they decide what to do.
Paul: If we are making a decision based on fear it is really a decision which counts as moral?
Me: Great question Paul. At the end of his Ted Talk Mr. Harris comes back to the question of “needless human suffering”.
Ann: Can science answer such questions as whether it is moral to keep people in prison and treat them badly?
Me: That is another great question. If our goal is to punish and our belief is that punishing person x will keep person y from committing causing suffering than causing person x suffering prevents person y from causing further suffering.
Amena: My head hurts Mr. Jim.
Me: Yes, it gets confusing. Has this exercise been useful?
Susie: My parents said that as long as we are trying to honestly to find ways to ease suffering we are doing a good job.
Tom: My mom says she worries about people who think it is right to make people suffer. She is pleased that we are listening to a lot of people including Mr. Harris but she is not sure anyone has the one answer of what is right and wrong.
Me: Great point Tom: All of you did a good job. You and your family listened critically to Mr. Harris. If we keep reading and listening to each other instead of thinking there is one answer we will perhaps learn what questions to ask.
Paul: It always seems as if the more we talk the more questions we have Uncle Jim.
Me: Yes, it seems that way Paul. Goodness the time is up. Next week the assignment is talk about whether having more weapons as our President is suggesting will keep us safer. I have the assignment here. Paul and Amena will you please hand out the cookies and the assignment? Thanks.
(They do so.)
Ring! Ring! Ring!
Me: Have a wonderful week everyone.
Class: Bye Mr. Jim
This week is the 31st time I have met with these 8t graders. It has been an exciting adventure. Given the constraints of the school budget it is not clear if this class will be offered the 8th graders net year. Even though my time is volunteered, if the budget is severely cut there may adjustments in the schedule. For now, however, we will continue to meet and appreciate our time together. I am excited to hear that these students have to say about the relationship between science and morals – between science and how we determine what is right and wrong.
The students are now arriving.
Me: Good morning class. Yes, we have cookies!
Class: Yea! Good morning Mr. Jim
Me: Tom and Susie will you pass out the cookies please.
(They do so.)
Me: I am eager to hear what you and your families think about the question of whether science can answer the question of what is right and wrong. I had suggested you might listen to a Ted Talk by Samuel Harris, an author, philosopher and neuroscientist. He firmly believes that “the separation between science and human values is an illusion.” How many of you and your families listened to his talk?
Everyone raises their hands.
Me: Who wants to begin the conversation? What is the basis of human values for Mr. Harris?
Will: He says that “values are a certain kind of fact. They are facts about the well-being of conscious creatures.”
Susie: He also says that “If we are more concerned about our fellow primates than we are about insects, as indeed we are, it’s because we think that they’re exposed to a greater range of potential happiness and suffering.”
Me: You are doing good with writing down what you want to remember.
Abdul: I thought we said that the brain of the fruit fly in many ways duplicates that of humans. Can fruit flies suffer?
Ann: Is someone has a lot of money do they suffer less than someone who is poor and cannot afford to take care of their family. We know someone whose mother is very sick but they cannot afford to pay for a special kind of treatment. Some folks are helping to raise money for them.
Susie: Does it make a difference that Mr. Harris talks about being exposed to a greater range of potential happiness and suffering?
Me: Great question. Do we know what brings about happiness?
Amena: The terrorist is very happy for a time but he or she makes others suffer.
Me: Are we now going back to the teaching of philosophers such as Jeremy Bentham who talked about the greatest good for the greatest number?
Amena: Was he the one who was also concerned about animal rights?
Me: Yes, he was. I cannot recall whether he made a distinction between primates and insects. What other questions come to mind when thinking about whether science can answer the question of how we determine what is right and wrong.
Susie: When we were listening to him talk about women who wear the burqa I got very confused. It is almost as if he is saying that women in certain society are not really free to choose whether to wear a burqa although he says that women should be free to make that choice.
Me: Susie, are you saying that even if women say that they feel free to make a choice, according to Mr. Harris they may not be? He also calls it a burlap bag which seems to confuse the issue.
Susie: I think so Mr. Jim. It gets very confusing.
Paul: We talked about whether science can identify natural law and if they can be people such as Hobbs and Locke right to suggest that morality is about duty to abide by natural law.
Ann: Have we already interfered with natural law? Is climate change related to that?
Me: Great questions all of you. Obviously, humans have been attempting to determine the basis of moral decision for a very long time.
John: We read some about Mr. Harris and it seems as if he is determined to find a way to talk about right and wrong without relying on religion. Didn’t he write some books about that.
Me: Very good John. Many people have used religious beliefs to try to teach right and wrong. For some, the fear of God’s displeasure is how they decide what to do.
Paul: If we are making a decision based on fear it is really a decision which counts as moral?
Me: Great question Paul. At the end of his Ted Talk Mr. Harris comes back to the question of “needless human suffering”.
Ann: Can science answer such questions as whether it is moral to keep people in prison and treat them badly?
Me: That is another great question. If our goal is to punish and our belief is that punishing person x will keep person y from committing causing suffering than causing person x suffering prevents person y from causing further suffering.
Amena: My head hurts Mr. Jim.
Me: Yes, it gets confusing. Has this exercise been useful?
Susie: My parents said that as long as we are trying to honestly to find ways to ease suffering we are doing a good job.
Tom: My mom says she worries about people who think it is right to make people suffer. She is pleased that we are listening to a lot of people including Mr. Harris but she is not sure anyone has the one answer of what is right and wrong.
Me: Great point Tom: All of you did a good job. You and your family listened critically to Mr. Harris. If we keep reading and listening to each other instead of thinking there is one answer we will perhaps learn what questions to ask.
Paul: It always seems as if the more we talk the more questions we have Uncle Jim.
Me: Yes, it seems that way Paul. Goodness the time is up. Next week the assignment is talk about whether having more weapons as our President is suggesting will keep us safer. I have the assignment here. Paul and Amena will you please hand out the cookies and the assignment? Thanks.
(They do so.)
Ring! Ring! Ring!
Me: Have a wonderful week everyone.
Class: Bye Mr. Jim
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